Nonstop Gaming - General
BioWare: FFXIII is not an RPG
| Fony | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:19 p.m. |
 insult linear hallway linear story game create linear hallway linear story game ban anyone who dares call you out on your hypocrisy -- Guild Wars 2 video compilation http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/56040256 |
| Gietzy | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:20 p.m. |
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cOld -- My setup: LG50PK590, Onkyo HT-S6305B, 40GB PS3, Wii, Elite XBox 360, Late 2009 MBP Dual Boot OSX 10.6/Win 7 Ultimate 64Bit PSN/GT - Willavom |
| SSJKirby | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:21 p.m. |
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about as much RPG as Mass Effect -- Not changing this signature until Beyond Good and Evil 2 is in my hand. August 25th, 2010. |
| Solid Sonic | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:22 p.m. |
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Spiteful commentary but it's a bit old, no?
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| Joebear | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:23 p.m. |
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are you honestly trying to say that dragon age is just as much as an rpg as FFXIII? lol -- Brawl FC: 4339-2162-9268 COD FC: 2965- 3090- 9757 |
| Robbie B | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:25 p.m. |
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pot kettle.
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| Blue_Popo | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:25 p.m. |
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This guy talks too much, ME2 is pretty much a poor man's gears of war -- http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b55/Danthrax40/PS3chalkboard.png |
| SaadishsnakeNGG | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:26 p.m. |
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Fission Mailed. -- Proud owner of a Kingstation 3! PSN: saadishsnake |
| The_Mana_Legend | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:28 p.m. |
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It's more of an RPG than ME2. Adding in choices that don't really matter does not make your sci-fi shooter an RPG. -- Proud member of the Superior Team PSWii60 |
| Sain_of_Caelin | Posted on March 11, 2011, 1:29 p.m. |
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Of course a wRPG company will call a jRPG not an RPG. Their concepts of what makes an RPG is very different. Plot and characters vs gameplay. -- Bob Dylan is the among the greatest men to live in our times. Kiwi- 0154-1264-8571 |
| vgplaya | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:05 p.m. |
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I loved ME2, but Lol @ Bioware for this. -- Life's simple; you make choices and you dont look back... Supporter of the Association For a Grenade Free America |
| WrenchNinja | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:06 p.m. |
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Bioware are hypocrites, yes. I think we all realized this. -- There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss...but when it looked back at us...you blinked. |
| Master Materia | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:06 p.m. |
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lol Bioware -- ... |
| Etrurianmage | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:07 p.m. |
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Bioware makes fantastic RPGs and are absolutely right in this. -- You'd think a thousand miles would be enough. I guess I'll keep walking. http://www.formspring.me/HylianShinigami |
| multiperson | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:07 p.m. |
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They water down the RPG elements of their 2 biggest franchises and they take a shot at FFXIII? Is this some sort of joke? -- PSN : multi_person |
| TheOceIot | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:22 p.m. |
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From: multiperson | #015 They made Mass Effect 2. They can say whatever the hell they want. -- Gamertag: PhoenyX101 |
| RoughNTumble | Posted on March 11, 2011, 2:40 p.m. |
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as if turn-based combat is the only attribute of an rpg, and not the whole 'role-playing' part RPGs can be shooters, and I prefer fast-paced gameplay to the enemy and I taking turns hitting each other with swords -- Grandparents dead - please no jokes Make mine DC, if you please. |
| jessica73 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 3:11 p.m. |
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old, but when games like ME2 are in the RPG category, FFXIII is too low tier to even count V_V -- http://sig.goozex.com/signature/TheBotQueen.png |
| Blue_Popo | Posted on March 11, 2011, 4:17 p.m. |
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FF13 is a better game than ME2 ME2 just appeals to journalists -- http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b55/Danthrax40/PS3chalkboard.png |
| FCMan | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:18 p.m. |
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The linked picture is an article from May 2010, so don't let anyone think this is some new proclamation. -- "Every single Jedi, including your friend Obi-Wan, is now an enemy of the Republic. Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy." |
| John032586 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:22 p.m. |
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
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| UnusualBubbles | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:23 p.m. |
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Bioware fans: DA2 is not an RPG. Only a year later, but poetic justice is VERY poetic. -- Glorious PC master race. |
| Ishdul | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:25 p.m. |
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Mass Effect 2 is as much an RPG as Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando.
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| jessica73 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:30 p.m. |
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From: UnusualBubbles | #022 But it is and a great one at that, goty contender 2011 -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/dragonknight337/kingmoronwhore.png |
| EmperorLawlight | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:35 p.m. |
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Me : Mass Effect 2 is a TPS. -- PSN: http://www.yourgamercards.net/trophy/a/EmperorLawlight.png http://www.backloggery.com/main.php?user=lawlight |
| JeffHardyRulez4 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:38 p.m. |
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lol Bioware sucks. Mass Effect 2 was a massive letdown FFXIII was alright, nothing to write home about but still a huge accomplishment in comparison to anything BW has ever crapped out. -- Am I a prisoner to instincts, or do my thoughts just live as free and detached as boats to the dock? |
| ESGmaster | Posted on March 11, 2011, 5:42 p.m. |
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But it is and a great one at that, goty contender 2011 Yeah, well Bioware fans aren't exactly experts on RPGs... -- Don't know where we're goin', just know where we've been http://myanimelist.net/profile/ESGmaster |
| MunchenGohan | Posted on March 11, 2011, 6 p.m. |
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GOTY contenders don't get BBB scores GP jess -- "Ferb, I know what we're gonna do today!" |
| jessica73 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 7:11 p.m. |
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lol, but Heavy Rain was an alleged GOTY contender so I don't think so gp munchie From: ESGmaster | #027 It won't win against Skyrim and Bioware gift to mankind, Mass Effect 3 v_v -- Not changing this sig until SWTOR is canceled, flops critically and financially, or KOTOR3 is announced. 11/14/2010 |
| Zoramon089 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 7:16 p.m. |
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Mass Effect 2 is a TPS with RPG elements -- Pokemon Black FC: 4470 0364 4689 "Optimus Prime, can you hear me? Or are the sounds of your dreams shattering far too loud?" - Megatron |
| MunchenGohan | Posted on March 11, 2011, 7:37 p.m. |
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From: jessica73 | #029 at least heavy rain started out strong before getting a bunch of BBB scores. and the way scores usually go, it doesn't seem DA2 will attain AAA status at all -- "Ferb, I know what we're gonna do today!" |
| eternalflames | Posted on March 11, 2011, 7:55 p.m. |
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Yeah this is not just old this is like last year old.... -- Government is the enemy, until you need a friend - Bill Cohen Tea baggers keep saying they want their country back, well I say I want mine forward - Bill Maher |
| Captain_Sorzo | Posted on March 11, 2011, 8 p.m. |
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In Mass Effect, you dictate the nature of the player character, defining Shepard's personality, choices, romantic interest(s), etc. In Final Fantasy, you simply control already defined characters; in terms of actual role-playing, it's no different than Halo or Metal Gear Solid. -- Hallelujah! We're redeemed and made free; by the blood of the Lamb we have won. Hallelujah! We will sing victory: Jesus conquered the grave. God be praised! |
| Poppadop | Posted on March 11, 2011, 9:47 p.m. |
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Their concepts of what makes an RPG is very different. Plot and characters vs gameplay. True, customizable stories and stat-based gameplay are both important aspects of pen-and-paper RPGs. But WRPGs tend to have both of those while JRPGs tend to only have one, so.... -- "Today, science fiction - tomorrow, science fact." ~ Isaac Asimov |
| CaptainSyrup | Posted on March 11, 2011, 9:57 p.m. |
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I don't defend FF13 on the quality of its game systems, but it is actually pretty heavy on role-playing. Copypasta from like a year ago:- A crucial concept to understand is that (pencil and paper) RPGs grew out of tabletop wargames - turn-based simulations of battles between armies - and a lot of the early terminology is informed by a contrast between those genres. One of the main features that differentiated early PnP RPGs from wargames was the rule that each player takes on the role of an individual unit rather than commanding entire armies. Each role in the players' party was given unique skills, defined by differing statistics and abilities: a fighter is strong and can take heavy damage, a thief is stealthy and skilled at disarming traps, a cleric can cast recovery spells, etc. Players were required to work together to overcome their characters' individual weaknesses, enabling the party to progress through a campaign. While in many cases computer RPGs are single-player games that give some control over all party members to one individual, the concept of role-playing lives on in this tactical division of abilities between characters or classes. So, yes, Final Fantasy 13 features a strong role-playing component: Lightning takes the role of an attacker with some recovery abilities, Vanille mainly focuses on buffing and debuffing, and Fang is suited to defense and recovery. To avoid misconceptions, it's helpful to define role-playing by what it is not in addition to what it is. Dialogue choices and wider branching story paths are not (in themselves) examples of role-playing. This is because unless the branches are locked by stat checks, these choices aren't an expression of a character's role. In Mass Effect, for example, only the very occasional blue/red dialogue choice represent any form of role-playing, by checking that your character has been developed in the sub-role of a paragon or renegade diplomat (and even these two options are virtually symmetrical). Pretending that your character has a particular personality that controls their behaviour beyond what the rules model is frequently mistaken as role-playing in the RPG sense, because it is called 'role-playing' in the different domain of drama. In the context of RPGs, this concept is usually called live-action role-playing, or LARPing. Combat of course needn't necessarily be an expression of role-playing either, but in an abstracted form it provides a density of stat checks that a handful of scripted dialogue options can never match. For example, Mass Effect's combat offers constant consequences for a character's offensive, defensive, moveset, etc, all of which depend on the skill trees selected within a particular class. -- "In daydreams and video games we find the lives that ecological limits and other people's interests forbid us to live." - George Monbiot |
| Xenon | Posted on March 11, 2011, 9:59 p.m. |
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The WRPG elitism over the word "role playing" is quite silly. Choice is not a factor in most of the cases where you role play. Actors role play but must stick to (basically) the script. Even in D&D, part of the game is adhering to the character role you set out. Good DM's will enforce the role you picked (i.e., if you're supposed to be lawful good, you can't get out of a situation by shooting the shopkeeper) That's not to say that choices can't be made in an RPG, but it is to say that it's not a central component of the genre, and it never has been. Look at the first few Ultima games, for instance. While you have a lot of freedom to do what you want in the game, in the end, there's only one RIGHT way to do it. You don't have any real choice. This concept that role playing = "player choice above all else" Is a silly concept advanced by a minority of developers. -- When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis -Xenon |
| CaptainSyrup | Posted on March 11, 2011, 10:14 p.m. |
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I agree with a lot of that. Basically, I think higher-ups at BioWare are probably intellectually dishonest about this in order to promote their LARP-heavy games, while the more recent entrants may actually believe what they're saying. Even at RPG Codex, which houses the kind of openly racist users who originated and disseminated the 'JRPG' meme, would slam BioWare's conflation of role-playing with LARPing. -- "In daydreams and video games we find the lives that ecological limits and other people's interests forbid us to live." - George Monbiot |
| Acended | Posted on March 11, 2011, 10:58 p.m. |
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I agree with everything that CaptainSyrup and Xenon said. I used to play D&D (I was DM for a year-long campaign), so I can back up what Xenon said about being choice not being much of a factor. -- 1. reviews are just opinions who gives a crap. From: the_great_tidus |
| jman879 | Posted on March 11, 2011, 11:59 p.m. |
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Hating on BioGod? NGG best be trolling -- SSBB-2707-1304-9932 http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/jman879/207qoznfl4.gif |
| Neihoff | Posted on March 12, 2011, 1:15 a.m. |
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I really liked ME2, am enjoying DA2, and also really enjoyed FFXIII. But as it is, lol @ Bioware, of all people, saying FFXIII isn't an RPG. -- This sig brought to you by Fishy Joe's. Ride the Walrus! |
| EmperorLawlight | Posted on March 12, 2011, 2:57 a.m. |
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From: MunchenGohan | #010 Heavy Rain has mostly 9s and 10s. One website gave it a 4/10 so it ended at 89.30%. Still AAA in my book. -- PSN: http://www.yourgamercards.net/trophy/a/EmperorLawlight.png http://www.backloggery.com/main.php?user=lawlight |
| Shadow_StarWolf | Posted on March 12, 2011, 5:51 a.m. |
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From: Captain_Sorzo | #033 The "choices" give an illusion that something changes. In the end it really just about how you react to a question rather than actually changing the "plot". -- Cutting down one-hundred opponents! Guard Dog of Hell! Dekamaster! ~ Doggie Kruger |
| HariSeIdon | Posted on March 12, 2011, 6:25 a.m. |
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Bioware doesn't make RPGs they make shooters and action games. Don't take them seriously.
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| shadow961 | Posted on March 12, 2011, 7 a.m. |
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its funny that Bioware says this then a year later releases a beat em' up Dragon Age game. lol, keep being butt hurt over Final Fantasy games outselling all of your games combined Bioware |
| Captain_Sorzo | Posted on March 12, 2011, 9:43 a.m. |
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"The "choices" give an illusion that something changes. In the end it really just about how you react to a question rather than actually changing the "plot"." They still shape the characterization of Shepard, who can vary quite a bit as a result. Lightning (or any other FF character), however, will always remain exactly the same in every respect besides combat build (which is completely irrelevant from a narrative standpoint in most games, Mass Effect included), no matter who is playing. MINOR ME1 SPOILERS A deliberate example of this is shown in Garrus' sidequest in the first game. Dr. Saleon winds up dead no matter what, but HOW he winds up dead shows considerable insight into Shepard's character that influences Garrus. Beyond that, I'd say it isn't fair to comment on the consequences of those choices (plot-wise) until ME3 is out. -- Hallelujah! We're redeemed and made free; by the blood of the Lamb we have won. Hallelujah! We will sing victory: Jesus conquered the grave. God be praised! |
| Shadow_StarWolf | Posted on March 12, 2011, 11:17 a.m. |
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From: Captain_Sorzo | #045 That's the idea though - you may have a linear character, but you can develop them more instead of "lol same ol snarky character but I soon gain a different quirk!" Note that linear development is often misused too, but that doesn't mean it is inherently inferior. And lol @ insight. It's just a variation of the same dialog but with different tone. -- Cutting down one-hundred opponents! Guard Dog of Hell! Dekamaster! ~ Doggie Kruger |
| Poppadop | Posted on March 12, 2011, 6 p.m. |
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While in many cases computer RPGs are single-player games that give some control over all party members to one individual, the concept of role-playing lives on in this tactical division of abilities between characters or classes. So, yes, Final Fantasy 13 features a strong role-playing component: Lightning takes the role of an attacker with some recovery abilities, Vanille mainly focuses on buffing and debuffing, and Fang is suited to defense and recovery. So you're defining "role" as gameplay classes? By that definition, the Battlefield games are RPGs. -- "Today, science fiction - tomorrow, science fact." ~ Isaac Asimov |
| Luminaire | Posted on March 13, 2011, 5:51 a.m. |
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Yeah, if you really want to insist that FF is an RPG because your characters fill certain unique roles, then your definition of the genre is broad enough to include MarioKart or Ghost Recon. So yeah thagt definition is a bit useless. -- XboxLIVE! GamerTag: MisterGuyMan (Geo War Score: 8.3 mill.) Now Playing:Oblivion/GoW(X360), Vagrant Story (PS) |
| CaptainSyrup | Posted on March 13, 2011, 8:06 a.m. |
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That is not 'my definition', but simply a description of the situation as it existed in the 70s when D&D was first created, based on discussions I've had with people who were playing it at the time. That is actually an extract from a longer essay in which I argue that role-playing is NOT the defining element of RPGs, but rather character advancement is. However, this beyond the scope of this topic. Really, role-playing is a red herring when it comes to defining RPGs, particularly when the term doesn't even appear in the earliest D&D rulesets. It was just the simplest way to distinguish RPGs from war games when both had a common baseline of tactical turn-based combat. -- "In daydreams and video games we find the lives that ecological limits and other people's interests forbid us to live." - George Monbiot |
| Rej72380 | Posted on March 13, 2011, 1:14 p.m. |
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Those folks at Bioware need to realize that any Dungeons & Dragons DM can make their campaigns hallway linear, so their arguement is invalid. -- I'm not changing my signature until the Rockies win the N.L. West title (Started on 1/22/2005) |